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[Balgin Stondraeg]

Name: Filibèrto Carlos Pofolupé Raul Eissej Alfonso di Ian?r
Race: Human
Class: Rogue/Fighter
Level: 3/2 (5)
Xp: 10880

STR: 16 +3
DEX: 18 +4
CON:  10 +0
INT:  10 +0
WIS:  8 -1
CHA:  11 +0

Fortitude Save: +4 (+4 Base, +0 Con)
Reflex Save: +7 (+3 Base, +4 Dex)
Willpower Save: +0 (+1 Base, -1 Wis)

Hit Points: 31
Armour Class: 20 (touch 14, flat footed 16) (10 base, +4 armour, +2 shield, +4 dex, -2 armour check penalty, )

Initiative: +8
BAB: +4

Melee: +7 (+4 base, +3 str)
Ranged: +8 (+4 base, +4 Dex bonus)

Attacks: +8 enchanted broadsword 1d8+4 (19x2)
+9 built and backed longbow 1d8+6 (20x3, 110' range incriments)
+7 extremely long spear 1d8+4 (20x3, reach, set to recieve)
+7 shortsword 1d6+3 (19x2)
+7 dagger 1d4+3 (19x2)
+8 sling 1d4+3 (20x2, 50' range incriments)

Appraise: +0 (0 ranks, +0 int)
Bluff: +2 (2 ranks, +0 cha)
Climb: +7 (4 ranks, +3 str)
Concentration: +0 (0 ranks, +0 con)
Craft, Weaponsmith: +4 (4 ranks, +0 int)
Decipher Script: +6 (6 ranks, +0 int)
Diplomacy: +0 (0 ranks, +0 cha)
Disguise: +0 (0 ranks, +0 cha)
Escape Artist: +6 (2 ranks, +4 dex)
Forgery : +0 (0 ranks, +0 int)
Gather Information: +1 (1 ranks, +0 cha)
Handle Animal: +1 (1 rank, +0 cha)
Heal: -1 (0 ranks, -1 wis)
Hide: +6 (2 ranks, +4 dex)
Intimidate: +4 (4 ranks, +0 cha)
Jump: +3 (0 ranks, +3 str)
Listen: +3 (4 ranks, -1 wis)
Move Silently: +8 (4 ranks, +4 dex)
Open Lock: +10 (6 ranks, +4 dex)
Perform, Sing: +2 (2 ranks, +0 cha)
Profession, Scribe: +1 (2 ranks, -1 wis)
Ride: +6 (2 ranks, +4 dex)
Search: +6 (6 ranks, +0 int)
Sense Motive: +0 (1 rank, -1 wis)
Spot: -1 (0 ranks, -1 wis)
Survival: -1 (0 ranks, -1 wis)
Swim: +4 (1 rank, +3 str)
Use Magic Device: +2 (2 ranks, +0 cha)
Use Rope: +7 (3 ranks, +4 dex)

Feats: improved initiative, power attack, weapon focus - longsword,

Class features: simple weapon proficiency, hand crossbow proficiency (rogue), all martial weapon proficiencies, all armour proficiencies, shield proficiency, tower shield proficiency, sneak attack 2d6, trapfinding, trapsense +1,evasion, cleave (fighter), dodge (fighter),

Racial Stuff: The Human skill point, The Human feat

[Keeper]

SInce my character has his own thread now, I'll address the STR/CON thing here.

I don't see CON as being tied to STR.  Alright, its normal for someone taking Fighter to ramp up STR and CON together, but that is a way that people just use the rules to max out a combat character.  STR and CON aren't the same thing and I don't think they have to be tied together.  High strength means Raul can hit things hard, but his normal CON means that he's not going to keep going forever.

Strength measures your character’s muscle and physical power; Constitution represents your character’s health and stamina.  (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#theAbilities).

That is to say - he can lift heavy weights, but he can only do a normal number of reps before he tires.  He gets colds just like everyone else and could be suseptible to poisons (and alcohol), just like everyone else.

If his CON were a little lower, I could describe him as having a glass jaw; or the American football player (esp. a Line player) that is prone to injuries - a classic case of hgih STR low CON; or perhaps the Rugby player who is fast and strong (both features of STR) but who cannot manage a full 80 minutes on the field.

Since Raul has a normal CON, lets instead compare him to some of the guys you see on World's Strongest Man, where they can pull trains and press huge weights, but don't make it to the final rounds because they can't manage the endurance stuff that involves applying their strength over a period of time, i.e., the Farmer's Walk (walking as far as possible with a heavy weight) or the Pillars of Hercules (http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com/wsm/events/index.html).

My vision of all of this together for Raul is perhaps a large man, but without the muscle mass of a normal body builder.  So he is really rather strong (STR 16), but still normally subject to fatigue and injury (CON 10).

This is getting a little long now, but it all makes perfect sense to me - I'm just not min-maxing on Raul's stats to make a optimum fighter - because I'd like him to have a little bit of character too

What do others think?

Back online tomorrow ...

[Balgin Stondraeg]

I don't see CON as being tied to STR.

Okay, just to clarify, I personaly do see them as being linked (can't be strong if you're unhealthy, could be less strong but exeptionaly healthy, but only very loosely linked. I wouldn't mind a 3 or 4 point gap but when I see six or seven point gaps I find it a bit hard to rationalise it if it's strength heavy.

That's probably relating back to real life. I'm a skinny guy who's not very strong and not good at lifting or shoving but when I get angry I "punch really hard for a weak guy" according to a lot of people. Despite the lack of physical prowess I am possessed of remarkable good health, often coming down with a bit of a cold or a blocked up nose but never getting anything worse when there's major stomach bugs and food poisoning going round.

So my view's probably a bit skewed and not very "normal" but that could be why I find it hard to relate to the high strength, low toughness thing. One of the guys I went to colledge with did his weight lifting training so much he buggered up his neck and his sense of balance (located in the ears) went. He also caused the cieling below his room to start cracking (above the hall just outside my door) with his repeated exercises. He cut down eventualy when the doctors explained the cause of his health problems but it was a bit funny at the time.

High strength means Raul can hit things hard, but his normal CON means that he's not going to keep going forever.

Strength measures your character’s muscle and physical power; Constitution represents your character’s health and stamina.  (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#theAbilities).

Once again I'm suffering from 1st ed memories where strength mean't muscle "and instinctively knowing how to use it". So you could have a big hulking strong guy with a lower strength than the fierce, aggressive fighter, and the reason his strength would be lower is that he wouldn't distribute the weight he was carrying very well and simply wasn't that aggressive (worried about hurting people, stuff like that). So Raoul can be sort of "strength 14 but effective as 16 due to attitude/the way he sues it" sort of thing.

My vision of all of this together for Raul is perhaps a large man, but without the muscle mass of a normal body builder.  So he is really rather strong (STR 16), but still normally subject to fatigue and injury (CON 10).

That sort of works considering what I wrote just above it. The high encumbrance could be due to good organisation (millitary training) and sheer willpower & determination.

[Keeper]

That's probably relating back to real life. I'm a skinny guy who's not very strong and not good at lifting or shoving but when I get angry I "punch really hard for a weak guy" according to a lot of people. Despite the lack of physical prowess I am possessed of remarkable good health, often coming down with a bit of a cold or a blocked up nose but never getting anything worse when there's major stomach bugs and food poisoning going round.

I think we must be the opposite, physically, Balgin

IRL I am a fat guy who is really quite strong and can carry stuff no problem - but I am prone to colds and I have asthma and hay fever.  If I were a D20 character, I think I would have exactly this kind of split between stats, which is why I don't see it is a problem.  If you can consider CON to be his propensity for being healthy, rather than his actual health level, then it all seems to make much more sense.

Once again I'm suffering from 1st ed memories where strength mean't muscle "and instinctively knowing how to use it". So you could have a big hulking strong guy with a lower strength than the fierce, aggressive fighter, and the reason his strength would be lower is that he wouldn't distribute the weight he was carrying very well and simply wasn't that aggressive (worried about hurting people, stuff like that). So Raoul can be sort of "strength 14 but effective as 16 due to attitude/the way he sues it" sort of thing.

I like this description - this is a really good way of describing how I envisioned him

That sort of works considering what I wrote just above it. The high encumbrance could be due to good organisation (millitary training) and sheer willpower & determination.

That would imply a stubborness, which I think would go well with his low WIS score - I like it

Thanks for helping me "find out" more about Raul   I'll try and get the class info to you later today!

[Balgin Stondraeg]

I think we must be the opposite, physically, Balgin

IRL I am a fat guy who is really quite strong and can carry stuff no problem - but I am prone to colds and I have asthma and hay fever.

Imagine a 5'8 guy who weighed 6 and a half stone untill he managed to put on a bit of weight at the age of seventeen (and made it up to eight or nine stone). When I hit twenty I went through a bad breakup and did a lot of comfort eating (managed to put on 2 or 3 stone in a single week and haven't really managed to lose it since). In the last few years I've managed to lsoe some of it and generaly weigh 130lb (9stone, 4lb) most of the time.

Snap on the asthma, I've had it for twenty one years now :(. But Southampton are trying to research an asthma cure and that's within 30 miles of where I live (they want volunteers) so I'm thinking of volunteering. Hopefuly it's related to that south african/south american bug which had a gene that made it immune to astgma (some scientists were trying to work out how to make it into medicine for humans and said a cure might be 10 or 11 years away - that was a year or two ago).

That would imply a stubborness, which I think would go well with his low WIS score - I like it

I was envisioning less stubborness and more of a desire to be an overachiever to compensate for something. Imagine his thoughts going something like this:

They're laughing at me again, they always laugh at me, don't know if it's my Sardellian accent or the dumb things I always seem to do but I'll show them. I'll really show them! I'll carry my pack and I'll have his one as well!

And then at camp in the evening he's lying on his bed cursing the pains shooting up and down his spine, his knees, his ankles.... And going

Great! Now that's something else for them to tease me about tomorrow. Bloody stupid unit, they're just picking on me but I'll show them. I'll show them I can be just as good as any of the rest of them. Better! Better than them all!

And then a few weeks later he has to take some unpayed leave to recover his health (but he doesn't rest and recouperate like the doctor tells him because of his arrogance and pride).

After enough sick breaks like that he probably got laid off (and complained that it was the other guy's fault he was always overexerting himself but the officers didn't want to know).

[Keeper]

You can have some of my weight, if you like.  I hover around 20st (@ 5'10") and really should weigh a lot less!

I don't see him as a whinger or a whiner, but I think I can do the overacheiver part, because he has realised that he made a bad start with a life of crime, but is now determined to show to the world he really is a good boy, perhaps overcompensating a little for being a foreigner and for those parts of him that are still rather too dark grey (if not actually black)

I forgot to bring my books to work today, so I'm going to use RedBlade (http://home.redblade.org/) to help me do my levels.  I'll just give you the bullet points.

[Balgin Stondraeg]

I don't see him as a whinger or a whiner

That's not whinging and whining. That's grinding his teeth and grumbling. Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote :p. T'internet's not very good for emotional communication :(.

[Fabian]

But some people would call 'grumbling', 'whinging' if they didn't have a lot of time for the person grumbling. I've been told to stop whinging when all I'm doing is having a good old British moan for 30 secs.

Maybe keeper's PC doesn't grumble either? 

[Keeper]

I'll go with grumbling   Raul doesn't like grinding teeth, though - a horrible noise that sets him on edge 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Weapons:

broadsword +1
Composite Longbow {+3 STR} (Masterwork)
Longspear
Shortsword
2x Dagger
40 Arrows
Sling
10 Bullets

Armour

Studded Leather Armour (+1)  1175 gp
2x Heavy Wooden Shield  14 gp

Armour Total = 1189 gp

Mounts

2x Light Horse  150 gp
Riding Saddle  10 gp
Pack Saddle  5 gp
2x Bit & Bridle  4 gp

Mounts Total = 169 gp

Other Adventuring Gear

Cloak of Resistance (+1)  1000 gp
Traveller's Outfit  1 gp
Cold Weather Outfit  8 gp
Backpack  2 gp
2x Belt Pouch  2 gp
Bedroll  0.1 gp (1 sp)
Winter Blanket  0.5 gp (5 sp)
Tent  10 gp
Bullseye Lantern  12 gp
4 Pints of Oil  0.4 gp (4 sp)
Flint & Steel  1 gp
Iron Pot  0.5 gp (5 sp)
2x Flasks  0.06 gp (6 cp)
2x Mugs  0.04 gp (4 cp)
Theives' Tools  30 gp
Bell  1 gp
Caltrops  1 gp
Map Case  1 gp
Grappling Hook  1 gp
Small Steel Mirror  10 gp
50ft Rope (hemp)  1 gp
2 sacks  0.2 gp (2 sp)
Shovel  2 gp
Signal Whistle  0.8 gp (8 sp)
2lb Soap  1 gp
Hammer  0.5 gp (5 sp)
10 pieces chalk  0.1 gp (10 cp)
5 Fishhooks 0.5 gp (5 sp)

111 gp
   2 sp

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Status & stuff:

Wounds suffered: 0/25

Conditions: none

arrows 40

slingstones 10