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Author Topic: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?  (Read 11988 times)

Custom_Hobby

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2007, 11:49:22 AM »

No harm done...it can always be fixed
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steeldragon

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2007, 11:51:38 AM »

and it's on our hands to fix it... unlike Confrontation  :icon_twisted:

Andres

Custom_Hobby

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2007, 11:54:53 AM »

LOl, what do you want it to say? the game we love to hate?
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steeldragon

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2007, 12:08:50 PM »

Not really... This thread belongs to Balgin :P so he calls the shots :P

At least is refreshing to know I'm not the only one with "issues" about the game system. The system is a bad system when your objective is to kill your opponent, but it gets more bearable when you are trying to accomplish something else on the board. There are several Tourney scenarios that I like, Hold the Bridge, Burn the House, Kill the messenger and so on...



Andres

Balgin Stondraeg

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Re: Confrontation: Why are the Dwarfs so rubbish?
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2007, 09:39:28 AM »

Okay, it's official, I have ordered the 'ing tank.

It's here. And from what I can tell (really bad documentation) it's got all the bits with it too. It's one of those relics from the time when Confrontation stuff stopped being french imports with a really badly translated pdf rulebook we had to download and became the same french imports with french writing all over the boxes and a little sticker on it saying "english version, cards and rules" slapped on the front (and then, fortunately, that's what you would get inside the box).

There's no list of contents so I had to count the 11 pieces listed in french on the online store and geuss a lot :(. No handy GW style diagrams either (just a few closeup photo's on the back of the box from different angles) so I'll see how it goes. I can already tell that some joints are going to need greenstuff (think The Khadoran gap only not quite so massive).
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Custom_Hobby

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2007, 11:32:38 AM »

Get it together and put it up in the WIP section
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Balgin Stondraeg

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2007, 12:11:15 PM »

I've just spent an hour carving massive chunks of flack off it :(. it's now looking good enough to consider trimming off the mold lines & stuff :(. That was not fun. Anyway, I'll see about getting some pictures up when I can (I'm thinking of spraying the inside black before I glue the two halves together so it'll really be black insdie instead of just dark).

One of the wheel mounts isn't deep enough so the wheel protrudes. This is going to be a bit of a modelling project, this one.
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Balgin Stondraeg

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2007, 05:57:06 PM »

I didn't even mention how bad last week's game was.

Well this week I got to play against the mad alchemists and their creations.

I got to kill the biggest thing they had on turn two or three with a freak double six damage roll that shouldn't have happened and then I got to watch them kill everything I had. I got to inflict some large wounds but never actualy kill anything.

It wasn't quite as bad as last week (and by that I mean a very minimal difference).

The guys say there must be a way to make my army work and I tell them that yes, that way involves being able to roll a 5+ on a d6 consistently to actualy be able to use all those brutal skills so it's just too unreliable and they say I must be missing something.

Yeah, what I'm missing is the dincontinued half of the army that never got released outside of france in the first place.
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steeldragon

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2007, 06:12:03 PM »

It's always funny to read your rants...

I was talking with a friend about Confrontation rules... and we are sort of trying to figure out how to "fix" the system.

My main problem is that is too random, basically you have the same odds of rolling a 5 than a 1, one in six, there is no thing as an "average roll" on a single 1d6, so the idea is to adapt it to rolling 2d6, where the most probable number to roll is a seven, or something like that. Since the current Confrontation system is going down and the next version it seems it will be on rounded bases  :icon_scratch: and different numbers, it's not like I'm tinkering with a game I'll see in tourneys...

Andres

Balgin Stondraeg

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2007, 07:07:23 PM »

Since the current Confrontation system is going down and the next version it seems it will be on rounded bases  :icon_scratch:

Bonus!

Well how could they fix it: introduce the WM/Hoardes half inch gap reach thing. They're sculpts don't fit on the bases and fitting them into base to base contact for combat is really difficult (sometimes my dwarfs have to fight huge skipy things sideways to be able to get at them).

Next up they need to not have a few favourite armies and some token ones. They should develope them all fairly equaly.

Next they should actualy sell their stuff to the people they want to buy it. Half the dwarf army's been discontinued and was never released outside of France in the first place. How can they expect people to enjoy using it if they can't even get their hands on half the stuff? I've heard they completely dropped all trading with Australia now but basicaly it seems like really introverted isolationism where they release stuff for the french people and ignore everyone else. And yet they do sell their stuff abroad, they just don't care if we buy it or use it at all so why bother selling it to us in the first place if they aren't going to do it properly?

Update cards.

Seriously, I can buy a blister pack, open it and go "that's a really great spell, it gives one model +1 to all it's combat stats and a few skills that are only good on a charge". it's great, it's wonderful, and then I open the rulebook to find errata that says "the spell doesn't give any stat bonuses anymore, it's just as difficult to cast, now has a range of 5" instead of being a touch spell, and only gives them a couple of combat skills that are only good on a charge so they'll never get to use them anyway".

Why don't they just update the bloody card?

I mean come on. Look at my tank. They're still printing outdated cards with it from the 2nd Ed confrontation rules. The copywrite dates on the card tell me that it was printed after the 3rd ed rules came out.

So why don't they just update the bloody cards as well as writing the errata in the rulebooks?

They're still selling the spell decks despite the arrata in the confrontation rulebook saying that you can't use the spell decks any more.

How else could they improve the system? Well they could make stuff less random and unreliable. It's like playing orcs and goblins in Warhammer but every time you want to do something you need to risk an animosity roll, not just ocne at the beginning of the turn.

Winning COnfrontation involves rolling well on the dice. Over the past few weeks I haven't made any mistakes but I've lost every single game bar one because I haven't roleld enough 5's and 6's. It's like Brutal. Yes, if I can actualy roll a 5 then it's justa s good as a 6 but the base attack value of 3 means that if I roll a 4 then I won;t hit a thing anyway. Rolling high just isn't garaunteed often enough to amke such crud*py baseline stats worth even looking at. They need to make the base stats better and the variables less vital to success.

WTF is going on with the maximum army size?

5 models per 100 points maximum?! Troopers cost 10-15 points each. So that means you need to have a "big thing" to be fielding a legit army. That's just forcing you to use a big thing because all the "french games" (Disciples etc) all seem to obsessively believe that there has ti be a giant in every army who does all the fighting whilst the weak and crud*py units cheer him on (because they can't achieve anything noteworthy by themselves, can't hurt giants and are basicaly cripples).

In all those other games 'though the giants are rare (as in, one in each army). In Confrontation you have to sue as many giants as you can and then give them a bit of weedy little support  to pad out the army to make it legit.

That's abckwards thinking. It simply shouldn't work. They should have minimum army sizes (as in, 3 core units of infantry required before you can field a giant to go with them). It should not be the other way round (the way they currently do it). "Big things" are supposed to be rare and special. It's like this kid we used to have at the club who kept trying to field an all dragon army in warhammer insisting that it should be legal. SOme people actualy played him a few times too! Well, Confrontation is currently just like that. It needs to change into something that people can actualy play, not something where you just throw dice at each other and the lucky guy wins.

Look at tonight's game. As usual my dwarfs got charged a bit and go some charges in. Then they lost initiative. Then they got hit. Then they took light or serious wounds. Then they couldn't hit back or do any damage (because of the combat penalties incurred by their wounds). Then the other guy spent forever killing them because they take a long time to kill (but are too crippled to fight back before they even get to do anything).

It's a very recognisable pattern. When initiative's a roll off with the other guy adding 3 or 4 (and me adding nothing) there really is no point rolling at all. Why don't they just say "these guys always go last". It would save an awful lot of time.

On a d6 roll off a 1 or 2 point difference is enough. A 3 or 4 point difference is just pointless.

Oh yeah, they could also scrud* the whole "strength 17, armour 9" thing. If you're toughness/armour is at that level then you don't need a higher strength. If you're facing something that can take that much damage then it'll kill you. Get someone else in there. If anything you need slightly higher armour than your damage output to be able to survive what the others will do back to you, not the other way round.

COmmon sense in combat says "put one die in defence for every foe and then the last one in attack". Unfortunately everyone just puts 75% or more of their dice in attack and absolutely moshes you but gets killed back really hard. So the rules are good but the encouraged playstyle isn't. It encourages you to charge up to people, shout at them, go "come on, come on, come on, I'm being aggressive" and then get your face smashed in.

What's scary is that some french people might believe that fighting's actualy like that (you know, cartoony Asterix & Obelix and Tom & Jerry stuff) because that's seriously the way the game is played (only Tom & Jerry get back up perfectly healed to be able to smack each other back, Confrontation people don't). So you take a lot of damage, then can't do any back ebcause you're just a cripple in a wheelchair waiting for them to slowly manage to finish you off.

5+ on  d6 isn't normal. It's special. 4+ is normal and yet the average difficulty in confrontation is 5's or even 6's. It only works if you roll lots of dice (lots of dice that you don't have because the enemy always have sequence or ambidextrous or warhorse or something or just gang up and always have more dice than you do because you're the second worst army in the game).
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 07:16:58 PM by Balgin Stondraeg »
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Balgin Stondraeg

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2007, 11:57:34 AM »

Well I've just taken a look at their "new" version of the rules. What a load of crud*. Stuff now needs to operate in unit coherency and formations (no longer is it a true skirmish game). Infantry is single wound stuff that drops like flies (making the multi wound characters even more overpowered than they already are). All spells and ranged attacks now have unlimited range! What a heap of offal.
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steeldragon

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2007, 12:13:57 PM »

Helldorado is the way to go or Infinity for skirmish games... no more Confrontation for me.

Andres

Balgin Stondraeg

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2007, 12:47:04 PM »

I dunno, WarHordes is basicaly a skirmish game woith very small units :).
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steeldragon

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #58 on: July 26, 2007, 04:49:23 PM »

I'm playing a lot of WM/Hordes... in fact I painted a couple of Warjacks the other day...


Andres

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Re: Confrontation, why is it so rubbish?
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2007, 08:06:03 AM »

Actually I started this too.  I got a Khadoran little battle team with 2 warjacks and some teeny lil chick to direct them.    One of the models is TERRIBLE tho.

http://www.privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/gallery/default.php?level=picture&id=118

What an awful static pose.  Other then that tho-Im happy.  Ill see about picking up some more units in a couple of weeks at Gencon-they normally have a massive display.


   The Khador Man-O-Wars (I think thats the right name) are some of the coolest models Ive seen in a while.
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