Has the 'net made nit-pickers of us all?

[cheddarmonger]

We all have our likes and our dislikes, I guess its also a question of degree.

I dislike all Reaper orcs; I think they look stupid with those boar heads and impossible tusks, so I won't buy them.  Or at least, no more than the handful I already have...  :icon_scratch:

But, if Richard, who loves the Reaper orcs, were to paint one, I'm not gonna say, "that paintjob sucks because I hate the miniature."

But I'm not going to quibble over details; "that pauldron is backwards, it isn't realistic..." geesh.  If you want realistic, go for the Darksword minis, or big scale.

As for my observations of paintjobs, I embrace the fact that we all have differing skill levels.  Some could paint something with a fairly entry-level amount of skill and produce something nice, because of color choices, neatness, attention to detail etc.  Whereas a veteran can come up with a crud*py paintjob.  I tend to be a little harder on the veterans, if their thing comes out flat, sloppy, rough, etc.

I think I suck at painting.  Sometimes I come up with really good stuff, but I'm just not consistent, and I'm slow.  Sometimes my stuff comes out poor, sometimes I just give up on something and put it back into the unpainted stack.  I love to post my stuff for compliments (especially from the sculptors) and for advice.

[Custom_Hobby]

David you don't suck at painting and are getting better.

I agree that contructive critisism is that way to go. I also love the FoD and hope that it gets back to normal. It has sort of been my home on the net.

Personally I feel it is up to the mods on a forum to keep the "feel" in line with the forums original purpose.

[Inso]

@Bungle:  You don't like Grymn?...you do realise that one dies every time you say that, don't you  :icon_tears:... :icon_wink:.

The great debate isn't about the standards or skill levels.  It isn't about what we are painting or how we are painting it.  What it is about is the complete lack of tact, diplomacy, courtesy and manners that are used to critique what people have worked DAMN hard on.  It is only a minority but it can be totally soul destroying.

I have a motto which I learned a long time ago..."if you have nothing constructive to say, don't say anything."

There are times where I have responded to harsh criticism and have felt guilty because I have been abrasive...but hey, at the time (after putting all the hard work in) you feel like saying "reap as you sow!"

I paint to my level and I often get comments about the way I highlight being quite stark.  I accept that because it usually is (I paint to tabletop standard and very occasionally, marginally better  :icon_wink:).  I have in the past been told not to bother painting anything and stick to sculpting because my painting was s**t.  It ruined a whole second of my life, I can tell you  :icon_wink: but it proves a point...there are those who give balanced comments and those who should remain in the bucket that they crawled from.

I have noticed on the FoD that there are a few newbies who have not learned the decorum of the forum (I like that phrase...it's AAAARtistiK  :icon_w00t:)...give it time and they will either learn or be expelled, at thier cost.

[Dr.Evil]

I find it hard leaving advice as i don't feel good or qualified enough to do it.  :icon_sad:
Suffering from dyslexia makes expressing in word's what i mean harder and take longer as I'm trying to find and spell (has to be close enough for spell checker to know it, had fun with cork yesterday as i could not remember it had an r in it  :shrug:) word's to say what i mean.

I normally have to bite the bullet when i post something that i think is not right, but i try to balance it by giving what advice i can.

Took me a while to post this as i felt so bad about it.

Can't think of a nice way to put this so I'm typing it plane.

White NL
The edge of the base painted black instead of white would show the base off better.
Blue instead of gray would have been my choice and highlighted in shades as it looks like just gray and white but this might be the picture.
Black horns, claws and teeth would be better than brown.

Green NL
Eye's need work as they don't stand out.
More highlight's on the black and highlight the skin a bit more to improve it or it might be the photo.
The small horn's on his neck and back would be better painted the same as the rest of the horns.

Not being nasty just trying to give advice on how to improve and feeling bad for saying it.  :icon_sad:

Something i have noticed is not many if any people posting WIP's and if someone does then there's not much feedback from skilled painter's as there used to be.

@Cheddar
It's the Celtos Orc's that i like lot's and Kev's (they are a nice scale together) i still have metal GW Orc's\Gobbo's left that i want rid of.

[gi6ers]

Personally I'd rather get brutal feedback. I don't give it to the newbies so much 'til I know them. Last thing I want to do is put people off.  If somebody posts something and asks for help I'll do my best to help where I can and likewise if I ask for it I'll expect to be picked to pieces.

When I started painting a few years ago and posted stuff on the FOD, I did the obvious and asked the question of how I could improve, at the time Klute wrote me a really long PM with some detailed advice/tips etc and he was very honest with my skill and identified some areas where I could make changes quickly and fairly easily.   I've got no problems with some people not liking my paintjobs, some of them are crud* and some of them aren't, either way I probably enjoyed trying new stuff and getting a few hours peace from real life.

With sculpts on the FOD it's not so simple, it's essentially part of their marketing, if I don't like something I'll generally stay quiet. On here it's not a manufacturer forum so I can say what I like whilst trying to be polite/constructive where possible.

[Fabian]

Wise words, Matt. My policy on sculpts is the same. If I don't like it, I don't comment.

[Dr.Evil]

People seem to forget that a sculpt is a caught moment in time and not what they are doing all the time and then there's the castable factor as well.

[Bruenor Odinson]

I'm pretty much that same as you guys, if I don't like what I see I tend not to post, unless it's something really constructive and helpful, but then only when it's been asked for.

Sometimes I look at posted minis and think to myself 'why did they even bother?' then I find myself remindedof my earlier attempts, and have to slap myself for not remembering that not everyone has been painting as long as I have or just may not be able to get to grips with some of the more advanced painting techniques.
(That's me then.............;0) ....)

Now if someone was to post up a mini saying 'This is better than say 'Eavy Metal standard minis, and it olny took me 20 mins, and I'm wonderful' when clearly they have taken about 5 mins and chucked paint at it from about 50 yards away...............THEN........................I would have to go in both barrels blazing, regardless.
That's just my tuppence worth used now.

[Bodhi]

What it is about is the complete lack of tact, diplomacy, courtesy and manners that are used to critique what people have worked DAMN hard on.  It is only a minority but it can be totally soul destroying.

People who put forth critique in such a manner... Well I can't even take them seriously and I never listen to ANYTHING people whom I don't take seriously say. So for me it's not soul destroying in the least.

Concerning "being good enough" to give constructive criticism. I don't think that skills at painting and sculpting are necessary to be a good OBSERVER so sometimes extremely valuable sculpting help can come from people who can't sculpt or paint at all but have great observation skills.

I just wish they'd stop writing selfexcusing stuff like:  "But anayway it's much better then I could do". You don't HAVE to be good at something to be a good critic of something. These two skills DO affect each other somewhat but it is not necessarily the case that a great sculptor/painter is a great teacher and it is not necessarily the case that a terrible sculptor/painter is a terrible teacher.

[Baldemyr]

I too read that garbage on FOD- and it never ceases to piss me off-I get the same on my art sites.  People define themselves online by taking positions on the most rediculous things....including Tiriels sword.   Its frustrating as hell especially since most miniatures have FAR larger then normal weapons-partially due to the limitations in casting but also at least in part to artistic style (I love the style personally).   That miniature is awesome and its a shame the Forum crud* probably left a bad taste in the creators mouth.



  And christ...dont get me started on CMON.   Artimis the 16 cm Deathwatch marine is of course going to score better then a 15mm Napoleonic soldier- to even have the two run in the same general rotation shows just how little CMON is about honest help.
crud*.  I started.

[Dr.Evil]

Have to start posting my cheddarmonger link as well as a Cmon one.  :icon_wink:

[Fabian]

I bought one at Salute today (Tiriel that is) - she's beautiful.