Custom Hobby Forum

Hobby Workbench => W.I.P. => Topic started by: Agentmolar on January 13, 2007, 07:56:31 AM

Title: Terrain
Post by: Agentmolar on January 13, 2007, 07:56:31 AM
Since nothing has been formally designated as a hobby area. I thought id post here.

Ive had alot of Klean Klay sitting around and i seem to be (to a limited level ) better at terrain at the moment then sculpting people. So Ive thought about making some terrain, casting in resin or plaster and seeing where this interest leads me.

Anyhoo. Ive done some basic sand bags, the question is:

Do you want more detail, or would you want something you can add too to customise yourselves.. ie. Sand/Slate and bits and pieces. Would you prefer dental stone (bloody strong stuff) or resin?

Here are some pics of my first attempt with Klean Klay

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain001.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain002.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain003.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain004.jpg)

what do you think. It needs some refining, im not sure what else to do other than tidy the loose bits.
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Bungle on January 13, 2007, 08:22:01 AM
Rougher ground?

Your in OZ?  whatever is lightest for postage

I'd love to do a trench system for WW1 hobbits.... so trench walls (one sided?) with old shot at sandbag tops would be good for me..... 25mm or taller to the top so humans can use it. and be buried into terrain.Perhaps cast with straight edges so they can be joined to make long runs, go round corners etc...

http://www.moondragons.com/html/ffp_13_gbp12_50_unpainted_gbp2.html does nice damaged sandbags

But that is probably more diorama than gaming pieces. Sandbags were 14" by 26" so yours seem to be modern  larger ones.. more like mealy bags than sand bags
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Dr.Evil on January 13, 2007, 08:58:36 AM
Add some details but leave space for more to be added and make the details so they match in with different settings and games.

Your in OZ?  whatever is lightest for postage
:yeahthat:

And also the cost of materials, which plus P&P is cheeper to make and send.
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Agentmolar on January 13, 2007, 10:12:08 AM
Sandbags were 14" by 26" so yours seem to be modern  larger ones.. more like mealy bags than sand bags

So how big would this translate to with 28mm figures? I just made them so they looked good with a space marine. Would smaller ones be preferable then?

Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Bungle on January 13, 2007, 10:41:01 AM
Sandbags were 14" by 26" so yours seem to be modern  larger ones.. more like mealy bags than sand bags

So how big would this translate to with 28mm figures? I just made them so they looked good with a space marine. Would smaller ones be preferable then?


Smaller ones only if you want to do historicals, and military.

mealy bags were used in south africa/ victorian times think a sack of maize, light for the size as its not sand.

modern non military use whatever sacks you can find.. old hessian potato sacks.. modern plastic sacks etc.

Historical ones were probably that size because when 14 by 26 and full I would imagine they would be narrower and shorter due the the 40lbs of sand filling the middle. Quite heavy to lift.

3 choices for an empty bag in historical sizes
 true 25's or 1/60 = 6mm by 11mm

28's or 1/56 = 6.5mm by 12mm

33 or 1/48 = 7.5mm by 14mm
(all figure measurements to eyes and bag measurements rounded up to nearest half mm)

to be honest I think thats only slightly smaller than what you have done, looking at the photos.

look at the way sand bag walls were built too.

(http://www.vetfriends.com/MilitaryPics/Images/8702BillinNamSandbagWall.jpg)

just found this for flood defenses  "Do not use feed sacks, as they are too large to handle.  Use bags about 14-18" wide, and 30-36" deep."  http://www.911sandbags.com/custom.aspx?id=3


Good photo and lots more at
http://www.3-4cav.com/images/HqandHqTroop/6666660-R1-E052.jpg

sandbag walls "should" be built with one or two rows two bags thick laid parrellel next to each other, the next row at right angles to a row below. So they should be as long as two bags are wide.

This "ties" them together so they are harder to knock down
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Agentmolar on January 13, 2007, 10:47:41 AM
Wow. thanks bungle.

 :icon_w00t:
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Bungle on January 13, 2007, 10:50:57 AM
Your welcome... anything if it helps.

Its up to you whetehr you want to do historical or scifi/post apocalypse type bags.

as a tip I was told that for the bags used in sandbag end etc had the texture of old T shirt fabric pushed into them to get the right effect.
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Agentmolar on January 13, 2007, 11:44:15 AM
I used hession (spelling? ) for mine
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Bungle on January 13, 2007, 11:59:07 AM
I used hession (spelling? ) for mine


Hessian, burlap yep thats what the real stuff tends to be made out of..... how are you scaling the texture down so it picks up drybrushing or washes and looks 28mm?
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Custom_Hobby on January 13, 2007, 01:17:24 PM
I love the avatar Bungle! :icon_mrgreen:

I went ahead and added a new section for anything related to the hobby. I will be adding more stuff over the weekend.

Thanks for posting this agentmolar :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Agentmolar on January 13, 2007, 04:55:19 PM
Ive got a material that looks like hessian, but i still think its a little large for the scale. I saw someone post on terrainogenesis that he uses sandpaper for texturing. Alternatively a cloth bandaid has been suggested.
When i get back into this, ill try again. The good thing about klean klay... it never sets.

Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Custom_Hobby on January 22, 2007, 04:02:23 PM
Anymore progress on this?
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Agentmolar on January 23, 2007, 07:31:04 AM
Actually yes, i worked on it last week, but too lazy to update pics.

Do you prefer this size sandbag instead? i based it on bungles pictures.
They still need refining by squaring them off a little/texturing and scribing the seam on them. But before i spend time on that, let me know if the size is more to your taste.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain007.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain008.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain009.jpg)

Im actually not happy with the original larger bags now, too padded. I would prefer if i make them larger size, to have been more square and flatter. So that klean klay is going to be ripped up and recycled.

Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Bungle on January 23, 2007, 02:10:42 PM
They look good.

Military pattern in laying them.

Size looks good closer to modern/historical ones compared to the figures.

The most important thing is are you enjoying doing them?  :icon_smile:
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Agentmolar on January 23, 2007, 03:56:55 PM
Lol.. enjoying???? Smaller bags, keeping to strict measureements.. worrying about the level of pedantry here?

Sure i am  :icon_mrgreen:

Ok. so im glad to see that its closer to historical. this is a good benchmark for me. If i want to go larger, then i can use this to keep the scale real.

Ill finish this off, and try to get it cast up.
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Bungle on January 23, 2007, 04:08:23 PM
Sorry.. but you asked for comments  :icon_redface:

feel free to ignore everything I say.. most people do anyway.

If you enjoy doing them larger.. do them larger.   :icon_smile:

The whole point about this hobby of ours is it is supposed to be fun. Bigger bags will be just as popular with gamers.... lots of them use 1/35 scale ones anyway.. they are playing pieces for terrain, not nescessarily accurate scale models. Just look at the "what scale is 28mm" arguments ( that I get very vocal in  :icon_redface: )

You are not planning on doing museum displays with them are you? So feel free to ignore my comments about size, and do what you enjoy. That is the most important thing at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Agentmolar on January 23, 2007, 04:16:13 PM
No dont get me wrong i was just kidding!!  :icon_silly:

I appreciate the feedback. Remember i did ask for your opinion.

Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Bungle on January 23, 2007, 04:33:12 PM
My point still stands.. do what you enjoy doing. :icon_silly:

Its bad enough that we have to possibly work doing things we don't like, without "playing" and doing things we don't like.

Thats said  sometimes I enjoy my job  (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Others/grave-110.GIF) although thats how my "customers" think of me.

(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Angels_and_Demons/devil-finger-294.gif)
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Agentmolar on February 11, 2007, 03:59:27 AM
so any hoo. the klean klay experiment is coming along, but i find its too soft for sculpting. Im planning on leaving it in the freezer before i get around to casting it. So i had some old fimo type polymer clay to use up and here are some new 40k size sandbags.. still a bit large, but the square shape works for me. They are textured, but you wont see it still its dry brushed me thinks.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain010.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain011.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain015.jpg)

after baking and addition of sand. Im going to add some rubble and then cast it up. I might use some dental stone as a prototype to make changes and cast some variations. Its all being worked out as i go along.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain016.jpg)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/agentmolar/Terrain017.jpg)
Title: Re: Terrain
Post by: Custom_Hobby on February 11, 2007, 09:10:18 AM
It looks good! Let us know how the rest of it comes along.